John Cage - 4'33" by David Tudor

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John Cage - 4'33" by David Tudor

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Listen : John Cage - in love with another sound -01	John Cage "In a Landscape"	JOHN CAGE SPEECH RADIO5

Listen : John Cage - in love with another sound -01	John Cage "In a Landscape"	JOHN CAGE SPEECH RADIO5

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If I can't be taken ... ( 2 weeks ago by BulbousAlsoTapered)

If I can't be taken seriously because I made "a personal attack", then how do you explain the fact that you opened the conversation by describing Cage as a "hack" and people who enjoy his music as "pretentious assholes"?
Anyway, I'll refrain from calling you names if you'll refrain from calling Cage and his admirers names. Now can you define exactly what this "CLEAR distinction" is between the sounds of the environment and the sounds of music?

4'33" is actually ... ( 2 weeks ago by BulbousAlsoTapered)

4'33" is actually inspired by Robert Rauschenberg's white paintings (and has been linked to blank pages by the poet Mallarme in some accounts), so you are on the right track there.
However, I don't see why you have a problem with something being different every time you listen to it. I think that keeps music interesting (it's a reason why I also enjoy jazz). Manhattan traffic will never NOT sound like Manhattan traffic. Any 2 interpretations of Beethoven's 5th will sound different.

I kind of suspected ... ( 2 weeks ago by BulbousAlsoTapered)

I kind of suspected that you weren't very well-schooled in classical music. I spent 8 years at university studying Cage (and Beethoven, Mozart etc). The people who taught me about Cage tended to also know much more about classical music than is demonstrated by any of the anti-Cage commenters I've read.
I think it's completely reasonable to expect you to cite the musicians who you consider to be so superior to Cage - many contemporary musicians are influenced by him.

Okay, I can be ... ( 2 weeks ago by AdmiralEasychord)

Okay, I can be agreeable about civility. At any rate, this is about to delve into a discussion, really, about the arts in general as a collective whole. But I'll try to keep in streamlined in mainly music. I'm a self-taught musician. I have no formal training. Most of the music history I know is contemporary - is the evolution of music from probably the 1920's and on.
Now, I have no problem with things being DIFFERENT every time I hear them. I enjoy it when a band changes their song a bit.

It keeps the music ... ( 2 weeks ago by AdmiralEasychord)

It keeps the music fresh and interesting. But what I'm saying is that it is vastly different to simply play something, in it's very ESSENCE, than just allowing sound to fill you from the area around you. Sitting in the middle of the woods and listening to birds, cars in far off distance, and the wind, is totally different.
Although I'm not a professional or formal musician, I AM an aspiring professional writer - poetry in particular. Let's assume a poem is the same as a composition, okay?

Poetry IS, and I ... ( 2 weeks ago by AdmiralEasychord)

Poetry IS, and I don't care what any English major or professor will tell you, but poetry IS defined by very deeply rooted rules of rhythm, meter, and rhyme. As I said earlier, eecummings is a horrible poet, and shouldn't even be considered as such. To be a poet is to be a wordsmith.
To be a musician, you must be a soundsmith. You must be able to adhere to the rules of harmony and melody, etc and so forth, and to write a composition wherein you do not even PLAY, is simply pretentious in itself!

He is not CREATING ... ( 2 weeks ago by AdmiralEasychord)

He is not CREATING sound - he is not attempting to CONSTRUCT anything. It is a song sans music, just like a novel without words. It is not NECESSARY as a musical piece, because it is intended to allow the environment and imagination fill in the blanks that it leaves. Which is redundant anyway, because one does not NEED this composition to frame that mindset.
To me, it is a blasphemy of music to think someone could literally sit down and claim to compose silence. It is utterly ridiculous.

I disagree with the ... ( 2 weeks ago by BulbousAlsoTapered)

I disagree with the notion that there are "rules" (in music or poetry). I invested a few years in studying the topics which claim to offer rules (theories of harmony, melody etc) and they were really just codifications of what had been standard practice in certain genres of music. What I learned at the conservatorium was the cliches of European classical music in the 17th and early 19th century (music from Beethoven to Brahms was taught separately as Beethoven changed some "rules")

Reading books on ... ( 2 weeks ago by BulbousAlsoTapered)

Reading books on jazz theory (as taught at Berklee) their "rules" are different to the "rules" of classical music (either the Haydn to early Beethoven systems or the late Beethoven to Brahms version). Berklee's "rules" teach you how to imitate bebop cliches (what was the standard practice of Charlie Parker & his friends). I also studied a little bit of 16th century counterpoint which was different again. In 20th century classical music there are NO generally accepted rules.

I'd be curious to ... ( 2 weeks ago by BulbousAlsoTapered)

I'd be curious to know what you think are the "rules" of poetry (I gather that they are different to the conventions of 19th century European poetry??). Then again, some of my favourite John Cage compositions are his settings of poetry by ee cummings.

Hey, if you're a " ... ( 2 weeks ago by BulbousAlsoTapered)

Hey, if you're a "Beatle freak", how did you not know that John Lennon released two silent tracks (inspired by Cage)?!

There are too many ... ( 2 weeks ago by craigdelaland)

There are too many "rules" attached to expression.
AdmiralEasyChord- you say that your experience of poetry is defined by strict rules, and that your experience of this performance is that it is not 'neccessary' as a musical piece..... these are expectations and preconceptions that you're forcing upon experiences before they have a chance to touch you in any way.
If you aim to become a published artist I think you've missed the point of art.... to stimulate and engage on any level.

To AdmiralEasychord ... ( 2 weeks ago by tubafatness)

To AdmiralEasychord-
Cage once said:
"You don't have to call it music, if that term shocks you."

less ego, more ... ( 2 weeks ago by peplreallysuck)

less ego, more enlightenment pls

I WANT IT ON MY MP3 ... ( 1 week ago by Shikette)

I WANT IT ON MY MP3 !

The ideal exam ... ( 1 week ago by Anders039)

The ideal exam piece.

Music is too ... ( 1 week ago by Gettinghitonattheban)

Music is too superficial of a label to apply to this masterpiece. This is art, and nothing but.

"4'33" by John Cage ... ( 1 week ago by EternalRockShow)

"4'33" by John Cage
might as well be
"The Quiet Game" by Milton Bradley
Remember the quiet game? That was a ruse as well.
not really a game just like this is not really art.
I'm sure it really IS an exhilarating experience to sit in silence.
If the Dalai Lama told everyone to do this, it would be in a proper context. But ultimately, the worldview Cage espouses is contradictory: Relativism is a game people play with no real world application.

Your a tool. ( 1 week ago by dshilala)

Your a tool.

And Revolution 9, ... ( 1 week ago by elcaifo)

And Revolution 9, inspired by Stockhausen...

One can only dream ... ( 1 week ago by Ltlevim)

One can only dream . . .

*You're ( 6 days ago by jimichunga21)

*You're

.....who ... ( 5 days ago by guliritz)

.....who brainwashed you?

My all time ... ( 1 day ago by amino112233)

My all time favorite!

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John Cage - 4'33" by David Tudor