The Veritas Forum: Belief in an Age of Skepticism?

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The Veritas Forum: Belief in an Age of Skepticism?

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"Belief in an Age of Skepticism?"
March 4, 2008, at The University of California, Berkeley
Noted pastor and author Dr. Tim Keller discusses the place of exclusive truth in a pluralistic society in Wheeler Auditorium, followed by a Q &A session.
Hosted by Reformed University Fellowship, Dr. Keller's talk is part of The Veritas Forum at Cal, following Francis Collins' lecture in February on Christianity and science.
For more Veritas Forum recordings, visit: http://www.veritas.org/media

Etiketat: berkeley california keller religion uc ucberkeley university veritas
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May I ask which ... ( 4 weeks ago by CaptainVideo890)

May I ask which comment?

"Perhaps, but we ... ( 4 weeks ago by frankie6092)

"Perhaps, but we all do it." Yes, we all do it but on a different basis. You took your take on spiritual based on your holy scriptures, we took our take on that matter based on our critical thinking and scientific evidences.

Don't make it such ... ( 4 weeks ago by frankie6092)

Don't make it such a big deal. Don't be so hard on that guy. I know you too experienced mistyping.

The one I wrote "( ... ( 4 weeks ago by frankie6092)

The one I wrote "(part3) I accept ...". Just forget about what I said about that, it could be just other reasons and not what I claim to be. I wish I could delete some of my comments. At least I accept that sometimes I too can be narrow-minded at some times.

Well, yes, but only ... ( 4 weeks ago by CaptainVideo890)

Well, yes, but only because the Bible says so. It's really unique in offering us a personal relationship with God. However, if it's "not the works of God but of men," I wouldn't agree that God is loving an just. If you don't think the Bible can be trusted, and I mean this as a serious question, on what evidence do you base the idea that he's loving and just?

What about logic, ... ( 4 weeks ago by Hap369)

What about logic, intuition, or observation? I mean, I have to give you some credit. The scientific method is by definition the only way to produce scientific truth, but its really just a list. A step-by-step process. Example: You might know you love someone, but that's not really something you can prove scientifically. People are always making all kinds of claims that you can't prove with hypothesis, data, and scientific analysis, like, "that was a good movie."

(part 1) I'll admit ... ( 4 weeks ago by frankie6092)

(part 1) I'll admit that it is very hard to argue concerning that matter like intuitions, feelings, emotions and art. But I've seen some studies regarding how music arts evolved and why do they sound good to us given certain melodies and rhythms. But science is not that mature yet to fully explain everything. Let's assume we could use intuition and observation to claim truth. Even on that case, reading the book of Leviticus is very disheartening and you could arrive to different truths.

(part2) Like for ... ( 4 weeks ago by frankie6092)

(part2) Like for example, reading Leviticus could mean to me that God is not the God of the Bible, because it is so hard to imagine that God could be that childish and barbaric. It could also mean to me that God is just, he just did the right thing. How are we going to go about determining which is true? It would costs us never-ending arguments if we rely on our own opinions and intuitions. That's exactly the reason why we can't say "That movie is good and that's the truth."

(part3) That's why, ... ( 4 weeks ago by frankie6092)

(part3) That's why, in formal discussions, couldn't say God doesn't exist. I usually say 90% I believe God do not exist for some valid reasons. That number increases or decreases depending on arguments presented to me. And never I could arrive at 100% until there's method exist that can prove/disprove the concept of God. To add difficulty to the subject, the definition of God is not 100% clear.

(part4) That led me ... ( 4 weeks ago by frankie6092)

(part4) That led me to an idea about a different definition of God. What if God has his own will? What if God can really do evil things? Maybe if we accept that opinion, it would be less harder to accept that God exists. The problem is all my life Christians have been imposing on me that God is good, but that is in conflict with the Bible (& others). It's either I accept that God is not good and he exists OR God is good, but has not been found yet because none of scriptures fit his definition.

You just made the ... ( 3 weeks ago by a5dr3)

You just made the objection that all my friends imitate in a silly voice when we make fun of unbelievers. -The sovereignty of God is the only basis for induction and abstract laws of rationality which are the preconditions for scientific inquiry. If you are interested in high level apologetics check out the Greg Bahnsen page and listen to the debates. Your repeatedly mischaracterizing Scripture in your objections and are overall showing an extremely naive understanding of basic epistemology.

"The sovereignty of ... ( 3 weeks ago by frankie6092)

"The sovereignty of God is the only basis for ..."
Sounds like your bypassing the proving of God's existence.
"Your repeatedly mischaracterizing Scripture in your objections and are overall showing an extremely naive understanding of basic epistemology."
Ok, I'll give it a try, but this has to rational and logical. I wonder why this kind of things has to be so complicated.
"If you are interested in high level apologetics..." Yes, thanks I'll give it a try.

Array ( 3 weeks ago by frankie6092)

@#$&! Why do I often mistype "you're" as your

No, I'm using an ... ( 3 weeks ago by a5dr3)

No, I'm using an apodictical transcendental argument to show that science and the absolute, universal, abstract, invariant, prescriptive laws of logic which you appeal to are not even cogent in an atheist universe that consists entirely of only constantly fuxuating, physical particularities. Laws of logic are not matter nor in motion and the scientific method rests on the assumption that the universe is NOT random and constantly evolving. See you on the Bahnsen page, check out the two debates.

Yo, hap. Go over to ... ( 3 weeks ago by a5dr3)

Yo, hap. Go over to the Greg Bahnsen page

We cannot conclude ... ( 3 weeks ago by shane137)

We cannot conclude from the mere existence of rival truth claims that there is no truth. That's the error of relativism. Claims about reality like "the cosmos is all there is, or was, or ever will be", "there is a god who is separate from the cosmos", "evil exists", "there is no real evil as evil is just a social construct", etc--all these claims are either true or false. Even though they contradict one another, it doesn't follow that all these claims are false.

I'm not ... ( 3 weeks ago by shane137)

I'm not discrediting the scientific method. I believe it's a reasonable way to learn things about the material world. I just don't think it's the only way to truth, which is a rather bold assertion. The claim "the scientific method is the only way to truth" is not a scientific claim; it is a philosophical point of view. You cannot use science to prove the statement true or false.

I want to discover ... ( 3 weeks ago by shane137)

I want to discover truth about the real world. I consider myself a freethinker, with no prior commitments to discredited philosophical views. I look at evidence (scientific or otherwise, such as the facts of history or geography), use critical thinking and reflection, and try to come to the most reasonable explanation for the facts of the world. It's always possible that I'm wrong and I'm open to correction if someone can give me a good argument (i.e., good reasons to believe them).

"I wonder why this ... ( 3 weeks ago by shane137)

"I wonder why this kind of things has to be so complicated."
Critical thinking requires being careful, but doesn't have to be complicated. I think of logic as a sort of codified common sense.
The scary thing is: once you learn about logical fallacies, you start noticing them in many places: in newspaper articles, in political speeches, in textbooks, in everyday conversations! Dealing with all THAT can get complicated, especially when those around you don't share the desire to think critically.

You're entitled to ... ( 6 days ago by plakey2001)

You're entitled to that opinion but honestly it's a free country you guys live in isn't it? good on the guy for standing up and asking a question, even if it was a little bit off track with the general topic of the lecture.

Part 1) Frankie, as ... ( 6 days ago by plakey2001)

Part 1) Frankie, as humans, all of us are narrow minded at times. It takes humilty to recognise it in ourselves and I take my hat off to you.
Whether you agree with Keller or not he is a man that has managed to grow a church in one of the most secular cities on the planet-New York. The fact that is has grown to such an extent warrants some thought. Keller is known for spending hours on open Q&A sessions with secular folk after each service, and this shows commitment to what he believes.

Part 2) Bottom line ... ( 6 days ago by plakey2001)

Part 2) Bottom line for every man, women and child is that we have to make choices about what we choose to believe and why. This is one thing we all have in common.
I still think Keller's presentation is very good, he's clearly a humble guy and I would be disappointed / shocked to find someone try to argue, seriously, that humilty is not a positive trait.

Part 3) Keller's ... ( 6 days ago by plakey2001)

Part 3) Keller's book really does contain some of the soundest thoughts on these kind of issues.
Frankie if you haven't read it, let me know and I'll send you my copy to you, international post.

I haven't read it ... ( 5 days ago by frankie6092)

I haven't read it yet. Thanks but no thanks, that is just too much to ask for. Maybe I'll try to get a copy myself. What's the title of the book? Thanks again.

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The Veritas Forum: Belief in an Age of Skepticism?